Liz Green:

Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening to all our members all over the world. Thank you very much for joining us today. This is the third instalment of our wonderful Mutual Leaders Insights Panel, and have I once again got an amazing treat for you all. We have three continents joining us today, so three very different perspectives with similar challenges, but obviously very, very different applications of how to address those challenges. So I’m really looking forward to our debate today.

My name’s Liz Green. I’m CEO designate at ICMIF. I’m be becoming CEO in November at our conference in Buenos Aires, so if I see you there, then hopefully we can all have a glass of something to celebrate. If not, I hope to see you all somewhere else in the world. We’re going to spend around about an hour, maybe 45 minutes on this discussion, but first of all, let me introduce you to my illustrious panel. And I start off, please, with Brenda Gibson. So Brenda is president and CEO of Red River in Canada, and wonderful to have you, Brenda.

Brenda Gibson:

Great. Thank you, Liz.

Liz Green:

Great. And then we also have Gunilla Svensson. She’s the CEO of Dina Försäkringar in Sweden. Nice to have you here, Gunilla.

Gunilla Svensson:

Thank you. It’s nice to be here.

Liz Green:

Thank you. And last but definitely not least, we have ICMIF board member and group CEO of CIC Insurance in Kenya. Hello Patrick.

Patrick Nyaga:

Hi. Thank you very much.

Liz Green:

Thank you very much for joining us, everybody. So we’re just going to get straight into it today and what we decided is we’d start on that wonderful topic that everybody likes to talk about in the ICMIF network, mutuality as an enabler. What’s your current strategy in terms of growth around this area? And I’m going to start this conversation with Gunilla.

Gunilla Svensson:

Well, I think mutuality is at the core of our business, of course, as we are all joined into the mutuality. And for us, as a small player in our market, we have three and a half point percentage of the market, so we are a small player, but of course we have to find skilled people as well. So the mutuality is, I would say, a core enabler to find people within the insurance business that are perhaps sometimes a little bit tired of other ways of doing business. And also, it’s closer to core values and to make a difference in society, and I think that is one of the core things within mutuality.

And of course in our communication with our customers, of telling them all the good that we do in their society and the difference that we make in sponsorships, in different ways. And in small ways, I would say. I mean, the easy thing to do is to make the big and grand gestures, but the other work that we do in everyday business of supporting small sport communities and buying the overalls for the girls and boys teams and so on, it’s very important for society.

So mutuality shows its face in different ways, and of course in our claims adjusting and us winning all the content customer, yeah, all the possibilities that that gives us. So very much in the core of ourselves.

Liz Green:

That sounds wonderful. So as well as the great things that you are doing there, Gunilla, we also hear that those little things really count at Dina Försäkringar and make that difference, the collection of all those different little things make the unique mutual at Dina Försäkringar, which is such a wonderful and well-regarded and a very longstanding organisation as well.

Gunilla Svensson:

And also to I think take a stand in different topics that are on everyone’s minds; that we actually have an opinion on that. And in Swedish society, sometimes opinions is not held by everyone. Everyone has one, but not everyone talks about it. So that is also a part of our DNA, I think. So I’ll stop there.

Liz Green:

And how does that resonate with our other two wonderful panellists?

Brenda Gibson:

I would say it resonates very much for Red River Mutual as well. So we are a smaller carrier as well, and very regionally focused, and our actual purpose is stated to be a positive force in the community and the lives of our customers. And so very much everything that’s been said is very well aligned to how we operate as well. We are approaching our 150th anniversary next year, and we are in a lot of rural communities, and that mutuality really enables our ability to do business there too, because they understand our history too. We’ve been part of the communities for a really long time and they connect with that concept of supporting each other because that’s very much how rural life has operated for many years. And so they want to support the mutuals and local businesses as well. And despite how much we’ve grown, they really see us very much as still having those mutual values, which we do. And so I feel like that’s really been a positive force for the community and really makes a difference for those customers.

I think in larger centres it becomes more challenging to differentiate in that sense, but our local marketplace … I mean, the major city centre is in Winnipeg, but one of the big things in Manitoba and in Winnipeg in particular is that people really are proud of local businesses too. And so because our roots are founded in Manitoba, we get a lot of support that way as well, and they identify with work that’s being done by local businesses. So I would say our mutuality really enables us in that way.

Liz Green:

That’s fantastic, Brenda, and great to hear that you’ve got that wonderful anniversary coming up next year. I’m looking forward to coming to celebrate that one. That’ll be wonderful.

And Patrick, how about you? Does the discussion that we’ve had so far about the pride in the local communities, those little things that make up that special mutual environment for each organisation, do any of that resonate with you at CIC?

Patrick Nyaga:

Yeah. Thank you very much, Liz. Very much indeed. Obviously CIC Insurance Group was originally started by cooperatives. We are not celebrating 150 years, though, but just about 55. And quite a lot of things that my two predecessors have said have actually worked quite well with us. We really predominantly want to provide both insurance and other financial services to the cooperatives, and the first statement we do is we are first and foremost a cooperative and that is what guides everything that we do in as much as we also do business with other non-cooperatives or non-mutuals, but we really focus on the mutuals. I think we have a tagline where we say we keep our word, and the reason we do that is because we want our customers to trust us, our mutuals, our small groups in the rural areas to really trust us, because we want to keep our word. And I think we’ve done that very well. We pride ourselves as the company that really pays claims. So if you have any challenges with claims, especially with our mutuals, we’ll even do ex-gratia where need be. And therefore, quite a lot of our values of integrity, dynamism, performance and cooperation well resonate with cooperatives as well.

But maybe just to mention that, we have a very unique business in Kenya and the region, because we are actually the biggest mutual around. And in as much as we compete with other insurance companies, about 38 of them, none them has a customer base comprised of mutuals and also ownership. So with that very unique opportunity and position, because we are then able to offer services to all the cooperatives in Kenya, in Malawi, in Uganda, and a bit of South Sudan. Yeah. And about 25% of our business is with the cooperative societies. Of course we also do business with others, but mainly focused on cooperatives. We have very unique solutions for the cooperatives, including products like Cop Care, which is a health product which has even won UNDP funding of about $100,000. We do social programmes with the cooperatives including education and other environmental support issues. So it really resonates, and that has given us quite an advantage over the other companies.

Liz Green:

Absolutely. Yeah, sorry, I’m going to pass that on to Gunilla.

Gunilla Svensson:

I was about to ask you, Patrick, is it easy to stand out in the market, or is it difficult to get your clients to understand your difference from other companies in your market?

Patrick Nyaga:

We stand out because from our name, Cooperatives Insurance Company, it just identifies us-

Gunilla Svensson:

So you get the idea at once.

Patrick Nyaga:

Yes, probably initially the only challenge we would have is insuring other people, other companies that are not cooperatives. But now we managed to align with the fact that yes, we are a cooperatives insurer, but we can also insure other people. But our key focus is cooperatives.

Liz Green:

So a wonderful opportunity then, Patrick, with the UN declaring 2025 as the International Year of Cooperatives for you next year. The opportunity is in your name, right?

Patrick Nyaga:

Yeah, it’s right there. And we’re looking forward to participating as well.

Liz Green:

Absolutely. And you can rely on it; we will be collaborating with members to see what that piece of work looks like and how you’d like us to facilitate that. So watch out for that in future communications.

It’s great to hear about all the positives, about your mutual presence and your uniqueness as mutual and cooperatives, but again, every upside has a swing in the pendulum and there is downsides. What are the barriers that you’re facing, guys, and how are you addressing these challenges?

Gunilla Svensson:

I think one of the downsides right now is that politicians, our Swedish politicians, they are really badly educated when it comes to the insurance market or the non-life insurance market. And we are doing our best to have a voice with the politicians, but I find that the changes in the Swedish market and the old Swedish companies turning into Nordics and also into international companies, that is changing the market, and also how politicians look at the insurance business when it comes to taxes. So we have had some really tough discussions during the last six and seven years, and we have been compared to banks. So I think the ignorance about the uniqueness with the mutuality is really something that I discuss with the Swedish policyholders and try to enforce that it’s important.

Also, I didn’t say that before, but we have actually celebrated our 250th anniversary. So we have started in 1768, so it was a long time ago, but nowadays it’s only two carriers in the agriculture market. So there’s only two left in the Swedish market, and that gives us a strong position when it comes to talks with the politicians, because the agriculture market is also very important out of many aspects. So we try to enhance those discussions, but that is definitely a downside, and I can see that out of the European perspective as well, that mutuals have to have a stronger voice and have to argue a little bit more than we are used to.

Brenda Gibson:

Yeah, I would say the trying to group insurance companies and then mutuals with that variation as well into financial, like the big banks in terms of regulation has been a challenge in Canada as well. We are not nationally or federally regulated for right now, we are provincially regulated, so that adds different things, but that’s certainly been a concern. So we have different organisations that help mutuals, but also insurance companies lobby with the government too. But I would say that has been a challenge in Canada too.

I would just add, and this is probably … well, there’s always the standard piece from mutuals where you can’t raise capital as easily as stock companies. And so as we’re facing some increase in the inflation cost as well as climate change and the reinsurance market always put more pressure in that sense. But I would also say, based on what I said earlier around the customer impact too, is especially in our rural markets where they know we’ve been there for a long time, there’s also a customer misconception, I would say, that we’re there just to give them everything too in these cases, and really have to explain that to be fair to all does not mean that we just give everybody everything all the time. We have to be financially sustainable in the long run. And so sometimes that concept of delivering hard news, but how can we do it in a kind way or in a different way than maybe other organisations? But there is a little bit of a consumer misconception there as well, I would say.

Patrick Nyaga:

Yeah. I think on our side, the downside for us being a cooperative is that CIC is owned 74.5% by cooperatives, and of course they would want representation in the insurance company, but the regulator may not necessarily agree to that because some of the cooperators are not necessarily as qualified as the regulators would want, despite the fact that they have very good experience in learning the cooperative. So we find ourselves sometimes having to really have a lot of conversations and convincing to the regulator to approve the directors for representation. And of course, because these cooperatives support us in business a lot, if they’re not represented then that gives a bit of a challenge.

I think the other thing I see with the cooperatives is that there’s a lot of expectation. And of course we are in business, so sometimes they want things or they want compensations that are really not within our sights. But all in all, looking at the downside and the upside, of course the upside is much, much more and we are always able to wiggle around the downside.

Liz Green:

Absolutely. So these increasing customer expectations, are you seeing any of that over in Sweden, Gunilla?

Gunilla Svensson:

I think it’s constantly there. As Brenda said, sometimes you get the misconception that we are just here to give out compensation for everything. And now of course, with the inflation and the inflation in claims cost, we are probably a little bit, at least we are, slower than perhaps the other companies in raising the premiums. So now the big discussions in the media is that inflation is going down, then our premiums increase, and we are having a slight problem with the information regarding that. So I think that we will probably get a little bit more of the consumer discontented people that are calling us, but it’s part of the business.

Liz Green:

Yeah, absolutely. And it’s obvious from what you’ve all said that the upsides obviously outweigh the downsides. I’m curious actually to hear from Patrick and Brenda about the point that Gunilla made; are you finding your mutuality is helping you to attract talent and retain talent? Is that brand, that mutual brand, the ethics behind the fact that you’ll take a stand for society, does that help with that side of things?

Brenda Gibson:

Yeah, I would say that it does. I think we get a lot more questions in the recruiting process about the contributions that we make to the community and they want to understand. We have a very particular campaign that we run called Spruce Up Your Story. It’s a competition, essentially, where we’re funding different community spaces to help make them more sustainable and make those communities more vibrant as well and resilient. And that attracts a lot of attention in our recruiting process, so we get a lot of questions about that. I wouldn’t say that all the talent coming in understands the concept of mutuality, but they do see that we are providing those community supports and that values alignment as well for them. But I think what really matters to them when they come in and they feel it, it’s the feeling and the culture of the friendliness internally and how we do business as well. So I think it does matter in terms of attracting and retaining talent.

Liz Green:

Absolutely. Patrick, is that the same for you over in Kenya?

Patrick Nyaga:

Yeah, I think to a great extent it is, because with us being really out there … for instance, what we’ve done is on an annual basis we do education seminars across the whole country. We invite all the cooperative leaders and put them into regions, and the whole day we’re just training about strategy, readership and also our product. So that creates a lot of interest into us in terms of bringing us talent. In Kenya there is also a university just for cooperatives, which we also support to some extent. So I would say there is a lot. Of course, all the talent we get is not necessarily from the mutuals or the cooperatives, but there is a lot coming from the cooperatives.

Liz Green:

Good. So the feeling is definitely mutual. That sounds very good and hopeful for the future. If I can move on, because we have a few different topics we’d like to cover, the second area that I’d like to discuss is how sustainability and ESG is influencing your current strategy. And perhaps I can open that to you, Patrick. I know you’re doing plenty out there in CIC.

Patrick Nyaga:

Yeah. Yeah, sure. Okay, we’ve not really been long on it, but we’ve taken quite some strides. So sustainability and ESG is actually embedded in our cooperative strategy. We have a very clear sustainability structure, starting all the way from the board of directors, senior management. We do have very clear roles and responsibilities by the board of directors. We have a sustainability committee that have a very clear mandate. We’ve also identified sustainability champions within the various departments, just to help coordinate between the departments and the sustainability committee. And of course, from where I sit, I also do sponsor that sustainability journey.

We’ve identified quite a number of partner organisations. Of course, ICMIF is one of them. Quite a number of discussions there. We are also a member of the United Nations Global Compact Network in Kenya. We signed in last year. We’ve also signed into Nairobi Declarations on Sustainable Insurance, NDSI, and we’ve also got quite a number of actions that we have taken. We are now certified by the Global Reporting Initiative, GRI.

And so we’ve done quite a bit of identification of what we would want to do, including very clearly coming out with our vision in terms of environmental stewardship, economic resilience, social responsibility, and responsible governance. And ultimately then we have come up with what we would call goals and targets. I can quickly just go through them without taking a lot of time. Economic; we’ve thought of encouraging community development through CIC foundations. So we have a foundation that takes care of quite a number of things, including education, tree planting, quite a number of activities there. And our aim there is to increase the proportion of revenue spent on social investment by 1% of our group’s profit before tax, and also increase the micro business to 25% of our business. So what I mean by micro insurance business is not the revenues, but the number of cases or the number of clients that we have.

In terms of environmental, we are looking at fostering sustainable practises, climate related risk and opportunity analysis. At least we do that 100% by 2030. ESG rating. So we’ve identified quite a number of goals and also the targets that we want to achieve, and therefore the sustainability committee is really helping us then make sure that we achieve those targets. And of course, we measure these and report on a quarterly basis to ourselves. So that’s what I would say we have done, and it’s quite an exciting journey because it’s really going to help our business.

Liz Green:

That’s fantastic. That’s wonderful. And how does that compare to our friends over in Sweden and in Canada? Are you that extensively connected with all these different initiatives and organisations, or are you taking a different approach?

Brenda Gibson:

Do you want me to go? I can go. As far as for us, I think as a mutual and a financial institution we’ve always been fairly strong on the S and the G in terms of the ESG components. And we’ve certainly done some work around our scope one emissions and really understanding that. But in terms of moving forward, we were kind of stuck on, “Okay, how do we move forward? How do we focus? There’s so many different things.” And so we decided to go the route of completing the ISDG calculator with Swiss Re, and so we’re really excited that that work is well underway now. And so we’re actually just awaiting our results, which is exciting for us. And so this is work we did with our board as well, and that we agreed that that will serve as a bit of a baseline for us in understanding where we can focus.

So we’re in the process right now of a new strategy formulation, so those results will form part of that so that we can align, because we really believe that we can’t focus on every aspect of this, but if we can really get in on a couple of key areas, we can make a difference there as opposed to looking across the board of all the development goals. We certainly want to be able to make an impact, and I’m excited to see the results and see where we can improve and align in our strategy.

I think along the way though, we’ve had a separate community budget. We’ve always been a part in terms of doing good in our community there, but I don’t think it’s necessarily been measured in terms of the goals or that alignment. So that piece will be really exciting to see where that comes out, because we’ve always done a lot of really good work, and then see where we can really improve as well in a targeted way.

Liz Green:

Yeah, fantastic. I’m looking forward to seeing those results as well, Brenda. Thank you so much for your support on that initiative. Over to you, Gunilla. How do these two very different approaches resonate with you?

Gunilla Svensson:

Well, it resonates well with what Brenda said. You don’t get to be more than 250 years old if you don’t have a sustainable business plan and an idea of existing. So for us, I think it became really evident that we didn’t make so much effort within the area of actually packaging all the things that we do. So that came as a surprise for us when we came out of some comparisons with other companies and we got big red dots on lots of comparisons. I was quite offended, actually. But getting back on that then and just regrouping again and just finding ways of actually finding out all the good things that we are doing in our DNA and every day and so on, and working with the packaging.

I’m sad to say that I think that sustainability has become more of a packaging issue sometimes, and it’s not the real work that is making the real difference that is actually uplifted, but it’s the packaging and all these certifications, that you can join in there and there and so on. So I think we have been careful about choosing that one, but right now we have a sustainability coordinator that works within our whole federation, and I had to fight my own board for some time when we had our sustainability strategy. They decided they wanted a head of CSR, and I said no to that because I want the business in its own. The closer to the customer that it’s owned and everyday work, it’s more important than having a head of, because everyone will point to that head and say, “Oh, that person should have …” And everyone owns these issues and these topics.

So that is where we are at. Financially, we have come a long way and we have a really clear financial strategy, sustainable wise and also ethically. So no worries there. But I think claims, the way that I think also you are struggling, Brenda, and perhaps also Patrick about measuring and about reporting back, “What are we doing then,” and not just existing. That is not enough. You have to be able to present it as well. So yeah, if it makes sense, that’s where we’re at.

Brenda Gibson:

Yeah, it makes sense. Oh, sorry, Liz. We had a similar conversation with the board. It wasn’t that they wanted a head of it, but I think because it’s the theme right now in general, ESG, TI in general, it’s like, “What are you doing in these categories?” And they’re part of each other, but they also have to be part of how we do our business in general. And I said, “I don’t want to have even a separate strategy. I want it baked into our strategy because it should be how we’re doing business. It’s just the right way to do business.” And just because we’re calling attention to it doesn’t mean it has to have a head or it doesn’t have to have a separate strategy of its own, because if it’s truly to be enacted and be embedded in the business for the long term, it has to be, exactly as you say, right at the front line in how we do all of our operations. So I said I can create a summary of these are the ESG or the DEI topics, but I said in the end it’s going to be baked into the strategy, not a separate strategy.

Patrick Nyaga:

Yeah, and I think I can add a bit of that, because when we started on this journey, it’s very clear that we’ve been doing a lot in business and doing very many things. For instance, CIC even has a forest that we manage and all that and all that. But at no point did we ever report it anywhere, or even did some of the staff knew that we had anything like that. So I think I agree with both Gunilla and Brenda that over and above just doing, I think we haven’t been reporting about it. So probably one of the things we have also been doing now is to say, “What are all these little things that we’ve been doing but nobody knows about it?” And we just throw all of them together and at least start saying that we are doing it, even as we now do it to really impact the society.

Liz Green:

That’s wonderful.

Brenda Gibson:

Yeah, that is a good point, because as a mutual, we’ve been doing a lot of those things for a long time and so yeah, we just have to be able to highlight it, as you said; really feature it and package it the way you said, Gunilla, too.

Gunilla Svensson:

Yeah, yeah. It’s more important than just being able to leverage on it when it comes to saying, “Oh, we are really the good guys,” but when it comes only to showing off then it’s not for real. But yeah, I’ve surrendered to the fact that I do have to work in the packaging industry.

Brenda Gibson:

Yeah. That’s a good way to put it.

Liz Green:

But it sounds like you’re all very committed to delivering strategic value through what you’re doing around your ESG work, and that’s the real key. And I think that’s a mutual difference, isn’t it? How can you deliver value to your stakeholders through the work you’re doing, rather than ticking boxes?

Brenda, sorry, you were going to say something.

Brenda Gibson:

Oh, it’s okay. I was just going to add to the conversation around claims. I think it’s going to be an interesting journey on claims too because we’ve really shifted to a replace kind of culture. So anytime there’s a claim, it’s a replace, not a fix and a recycle or a repair. That’s not just for ease or speed, but I think we’ll actually have to change consumer expectations and behaviour there too. And that’s going to be a real challenge, just, “Well, I assume through my insurance process I’m going to get something new.” And we’ve moved away in the perception from, “I’m just getting back to where I was,” to, “I’m actually getting a benefit or enhanced or a new kitchen or whatever it is along the way.” So I think that will be tricky.

And also from a cost perspective it is really challenging, because often right now it is going to take more cost to actually repair a lot of things than it is to replace. And so we either have to start supporting a fix-it culture a little bit more, or we’re going to have to look at how do we … I think people are looking more at recycling or, “How do we dispose of things?” But I would challenge that we could also think about, “How do we fix things?” Because that changes the mentality of not just being better at throwing things out, but actually being better at preserving the value.

Gunilla Svensson:

So we have actually replaced houses in remote areas with other houses that we have moved to the plot that has had the claim, and I think in those areas, people are more used to actually reusing things and leaning on others and to have not the throwaway culture that’s mostly rooted in the cities. So that is also something that we should probably report more on. And that is a good thing out of the packaging industry, of actually finding all those cases as well; that we have them, but we haven’t talked about them, and we haven’t talked about them internally either. So that is a good thing that comes out of gaining all these different ideas and examples.

Brenda Gibson:

Yeah, that’s a great example. I love that.

Liz Green:

I do as well. Absolutely. There’s so much to learn, isn’t there, from mutuals. And I think just on this call, you’ve got 455 years worth of experience from organisations and this pragmatic approach about not being caught up in the latest thing and realising that really, certainly around sustainability, it’s just what you do. And perhaps there’s an opportunity to explain that more, but I think it’s a really, really worthy conversation and it’s inspiring as well, and I hope everybody who listens can take something from that. I certainly am.

And just before we wrap up, because the time is against us, we have these wonderful conversations, and before we know it, the time’s up, obviously in November we’ll be getting together with hopefully around 350 to 400 leaders from across the world in Argentina. And our conference is going to be called Collaborating with Purpose. I’m curious to hear, from my three illustrious panellists, what does that mean to you? Do you do much collaboration with it? Obviously already we’ve heard from Patrick about propensity to work within the cooperative sector, which is a wonderful thing, but can you give any examples of how you’ve collaborated with ICMIF members, or where you hope to? May I start perhaps with Brenda on that one?

Brenda Gibson:

Oh, sure. Actually early days for me, so I only joined Red River just over a year ago. And so coming in as a new CEO into the organisation, one of the most meaningful interactions I had was ICMIF had reached out and suggested I connect with another new CEO in the mutual family of companies here that we have access to. It was an excellent idea and such a great conversation. I felt it was so great to discuss our observations and our approaches. They were quite different approaches coming in, also different mandates coming in, but really interesting. And actually I found it gave me really early validation in this role in terms of direction, and I felt that you’re not alone in this process either. And despite the company being across the world, it was quite uniting for me.

And so that’s been one of my personal and most meaningful collaborations, but actually I was just talking with someone with ICMIF on our quarterly call the other day and getting reports back on sessions or collaborations that our team is doing. So even internally, I didn’t realise my own team had been leveraging some of these sessions to the extent they were. So I think there’s a lot of collaborations going on in the organisation, and as a smaller company and a regional player, we wear a lot of hats. Everybody does. So being able to reach out to other organisations and get different perspectives or just hear what others are doing has been extremely helpful, whether it’s getting new ideas or even, like I said, feeling validated in the way we were thinking about things, that others are kind of on the same path or facing those same challenges as well. And so yeah, we’ve made good use of our ICMIF membership as well, and so there’s been lots of opportunity and we’ve certainly taken advantage of those opportunities as well.

Liz Green:

That’s wonderful, Brenda, thank you so much. How about you Gunilla? What’s been your experience with collaborations with ICMIF?

Gunilla Svensson:

Yeah, so we are networking within reinsurance, sustainability and also actuaries. And we also have members within the Programme for Young Leaders. And also one unique thing, that we have one co-worker that is married to a Japanese woman, and when they were on holiday to visit his relatives, he asked, “Do you think that I could make a trip to a Japanese mutual?” So that was arranged and he got the VIP treatment. So he speaks Japanese, but he was too afraid of not speaking insurance Japanese, so he didn’t let the hosts know that he spoke Japanese until the end of the first day and they went, “Wow.” So he was there for two days, and he has been talking about that within our group as well, talking about his experiences. So it’s been good. And we have also made good use of our membership so far. We are committed to continue to do that.

Liz Green:

That’s wonderful. And gosh, look at us all smiling. These collaboration stories just bring us all so much joy. Patrick, you’re a board member of ICMIF, you’re involved in all sorts of areas. What’s your takeaway in terms of the Collaboration with Purpose within the network?

Patrick Nyaga:

I think the collaboration is quite good, and my most exciting one is when I attended ICMIF for the first time in Italy. And of course through the introduction of our group chairman, I met Dr. Rees from the Philippines, and it ended up being a very good meeting and he invited us to Philippines to just see how they’re doing micro insurance. And of course we had a whole week of VIP treatment as well in the Philippines and I really got to understand with some of my team members how they are doing micro insurance. Quite a bit of that has translated into our own strategy in micro insurance in Kenya. And we actually signed an MOU. And very soon, now that we have got the licence, actually on Monday this week we got the licence from our regulator to do micro insurance, I’ll be sending a team to the Philippines now to study.

So very, very collaborative. Very, very fruitful and valuable. And of course, some of my team members also attend the webinars. I have two members attending the Young Leaders Forum. And also of course, when you attend the forums physically, like the one in Italy, I also met quite a number of people who I have interacted with, including Liz here. Yeah, so I think it’s very, very good.

I think out of that, we have also collaborated with ICMIF itself, with the UNDP promotion for Hope Care Kenya and Abuensi in Malawi, $100,000 each. And Sabir has been very, very instrumental in that. So very, very, very good.

Liz Green:

Wonderful. Just what a wonderful point. We probably need to end our wonderful conversation and I’m so inspired by those collaborative stories. I’m inspired by the incredible things that you’re doing to bring your mutuality to life with all your stakeholders, and the fact that your responsible strategies are strategic in nature. There’s certainly never been a box ticker on my calls. You’re all about doing the right thing and adding value to your members. I’m hugely, hugely in debt to you all for taking your time away. I hope that you got something out of this today, my wonderful panellists. It’s been a pleasure. Thank you for your openness and we look forward to our next session.

Our next session on this Leader Insights discussion will be towards the end of this year. Hopefully we can see some people in Buenos Aires. If not, we have our strategy summit in Paris next year. Look out for the launch dates of that. We’re really excited about that. So wherever you are in the world, thank you for your time. I hope that you found this useful. Please give us some feedback, because these wonderful ladies and gentlemen have taken time out of their calendar to share with you and each other. And isn’t that what it’s all about, being at ICMIF? So thank you all and have a great day. Thank you.

Brenda Gibson:

Cheers, thank you.

Gunilla Svensson:

Thank you.

Patrick Nyaga:

Thank you. Goodbye.