Shaun Tarbuck:

Welcome to this, the first of our quarterly updates between Liz Green and myself, Shaun Tarbuck. Hopefully many of you know by now that I am retiring at the end of this year in November at the Conference in Buenos Aires and Liz will be taking over. So, that announcement was last year, but we thought it'd be useful for the two of us to have a chat about what is really current and what is going on. So, it is a big year. Liz, you've started doing a lot of the planning around the agenda for the end of the year. Do you want to talk a little bit about what members can maybe expect from that?

Liz Green:

Yes. This is going to be another incredible year for ICMIF. Obviously, last time it was all about our centenary, that was our last conference…

Shaun Tarbuck:

That was great, wasn't it?

Liz Green:

... this year it's an amazing conference and we made a lot of pledges during that [Rome Conference] and hopefully we can have a chat about that as well later on. But I think for this year, the big thing is we've got our big Conference coming up in Buenos Aires. Already, as you say, lots of planning already has gone into that. We have been meeting with our counterparts over in Argentina.

Shaun Tarbuck:

We're launching it this month, aren't we?

Liz Green:

They're very, very excited. Yes. So we're launching it. We've already put out the initial dates and everything, save the dates. But the actual agenda's coming together beautifully. And that agenda, it's always based on what our members are telling us, Shaun. As we've always had the whole time that you've been CEO, you've always been reflective, very much reflective of what our members are saying and also what the outside world is telling us. And this conference is no different.

So this time it's about... It's a bit of a gear change. We're moving from leading with purpose to collaborating with purpose. Collaborating with purpose is all about us being able to work, actually leverage this incredible global community that we have across the world to make sure that we're not just exchanging information, we're quite good at that, but how can we actually work together to solve some of the world's biggest problems to make the world a safer, more resilient place.

Shaun Tarbuck:

Which happens to be our purpose, of course.

Liz Green:

Yes, absolutely. So it's the collaboration points and the three areas, if you boil it all down, that our members are telling us are really uppermost in their mind. You've got people. So people is a huge area. It's the retention of people. It's the diversity agenda. It's about the interruption at the moment that's going on with AI and transformation. How's all that impacting people? And it's about people in communities. How are we best served to help secure the future of our people and the people that we serve.

Shaun Tarbuck:

Yeah, the inclusion is part of it as well.

Liz Green:

Inclusion is a huge part and we have our-

Shaun Tarbuck:

Always has been, hasn't it?

Liz Green:

Yeah, exactly. We have our Foundation for that and we can talk a bit about the pivot that's happening on that as well. In the middle of it all, you've got performance. And of course great organisations have to perform. Our members perform brilliantly and they very often outperform in their national markets, but times are tough. So how can ICMIF support, and ICMIF members support the performance of our membership and how can we make sure that we have got innovation as well as a steady hand to keep that performance going? And then finally, the third part of the milking stool, if you like, is partnerships.

I think we've all learned, if you've listened to COP, and you were there, Shaun, and you can give us maybe a few reflections from that, we're all in this together. We can't do any of this on our own. And we'll talk a bit about the partnerships as well that we've been involved with in our discussion. But my goodness, I tell you what, it's not just partners that are outside of our industry that we need to bring in. We also need to make sure that we as a broader sector are working together.

So I'll be working with the likes of NAMIC, with the AMICE with all the big trade associations across the world to try and make sense of what we're doing and join up the narrative. But I know obviously there's a lot of work that happened, particularly back in Rome.

Shaun Tarbuck:

Well, yeah, I think Rome was important because the signatory partnerships that we signed off in 2019, and you can see each time... Our Conference is so important because it's where the culmination of all of the work for the previous two years has come to. It's what it is for. So 2019, we started the partnerships. In 2022, we were able to announce some great initiatives coming out of the partnerships that we actually had. And there's a lot more that's been built on there.

I suppose if I look back to when we started in earnest, the sustainability journey sort of back in 2013, I could go back to 1995 and my predecessor Hans Dahlberg and how he got it and all that. But let's look at it when it became mainstream, which is sort of 2013 to 2015. And what's really happened now is that everyone realises we have to work together. But what we've seen is on a big picture basis like COP, it probably doesn't quite work as well as if you do the bilaterals. And the bilaterals is what we've focused on with UNDP, with the work we're doing there with the UNDRR, with the work we're doing with the UN Principles Sustainable Insurance with the accounting for sustainability.

There's a raft of others like the Climate Bonds Initiative on the green bonds side that we participate in that have all been built out over the last five, six years. And I must admit, the partnerships are... The projects we launched in Rome are now in terms of delivery, are really working. So the resilience benchmark that we launched has got a lot of members behind it. The SDG calculator has got a lot of members behind it. And this is about measuring real impact. And I think that's what the whole industry and probably the whole world needs to do better.

In some industries, they're measuring impact really well. In others they're not. And I don't think we are in the insurance industry, if I'm honest. The only things I'm really seeing are what we've developed with our partnerships and our members are a hundred percent behind this. They really love it. They're using it to influence their own strategy and their own impact. So I think we're going to see a lot more announcements at the end of the year at the conference about how they are changing.

Our aim has always been to scale up and give these back to the industry so that we will drive the industry forward in a more purpose led and values led way which I think is our remit. I mean, that's always been our remit. And I think... I'll talk a little bit and maybe you can talk a little bit about a great start to the year with new members, but one of the members that has just joined us just before Christmas said, "We finally realised that we need to build our business model based on the values of mutuality."

How do we do it? Well, you've come to the right place. Of course you have. And that's wonderful to hear that everyone is on a journey and it doesn't matter where you are in that journey, it's the realisation of our unique selling point as any business actually is our values and our purpose. And that's what we try and reflect. But maybe you can talk a little bit about some of the great stuff in terms of new members that we've got as well.

Liz Green:

Yes. Always like to talk about that. I think you're right, Shaun. I think that we began this year with six new members joining ICMIF. And when you drill down to why these members are joining, the commonality is, you know what? We can't do this alone. And typically an ICMIF member is a national organisation and they are operating and competing with international organisations.

These international organisations are going... I was saying before about the people, about performance and about partnerships. These organisations are giving their people opportunities all over the world. And our national mutuals as amazing as they are, can't do that. And they're not fighting on a level playing field. When they join ICMIF, they're getting that global sense. They're getting the inspiration and they're getting the opportunity to give their people the flavour and the opportunities of a global organisation through ICMIF.

We are super excited about that. And the conference, as you say, is the culmination of all of that. But this quarter we'll be announcing a number of new initiatives that are coming out for our members. And of course each quarter will talk about different ones that we're doing. What am I most excited about? Well, you'll see a launch of our advanced management course. Our advanced management course has been going for more than 20 years. But has it stayed the same? No, it's completely different.

Shaun Tarbuck:

It changes every year, doesn't it?

Liz Green:

It changes every year. And now, as you said before, it's all about the purpose led mutual. And how to use that opportunity to differentiate strategically and how to solve very complex problems. In a global world, in a globalised world, how do we keep that competitive edge? I’m really excited about that. And I know our members always see that as a great opportunity to differentiate and to use their ICMIF services.

But not every member can send somebody to Manchester. That's the reality, isn't it, Shaun? And we understand that because as you say, we have a very, very broad base of members. We've got the smallest members in some of the emerging markets through to the largest mutuals and coops in the world. So we have to offer something for everybody.

Shaun Tarbuck:

Yes. You are going to go through a process at the beginning of this year of interviewing a lot of CEOs, but you also got to know a lot more in the transition that's happened already in the six months. What do you think is foremost in their minds as the challenge? Because they've had some very challenging times with COVID and then with the financial crisis or the crash of the stock market and everything last year. Not last year, 2022. It's come back a bit this year, which is good in 2023, but 2024. What do you think is on their minds the most?

Liz Green:

I think that there's a number of things that are on their minds, and this is why we have to think broader at ICMIF than just the mutuals because generally your average consumer considers the financial services market as a whole. And a big issue continues and prevails with our members, with insurers around trust and transparency. And that's still on our members' minds, even though we know that a lot of them are doing the right thing. Because of the rest of the sector that hasn't always done the right thing, and certainly during COVID, there's a perception that the financial services industry didn't step up in some parts. So therefore that really holds us back, even though we're the good guys.

Shaun Tarbuck:

But I think during COVID we were... And with every financial crisis for our members, it's particularly a chance for them to shine.

Liz Green:

Yes, I agree.

Shaun Tarbuck:

And COVID, we saw that. We put a load of media out about. All of the great things our members were doing. I think there was over USD 10 billion of givebacks to society communities, to charities to make things different. So we were seen very differently then. And back in the financial crisis, in the financial one, in 2008, 2009, there was an awful lot of movement into the mutual sector because it was more trusted. It was a safer place to put your money, particularly on the long-term and the life side of things. We saw a big inflow in premiums into that particular area.

And that still is reflected in some of the numbers we put out on the fastest growing part of the insurance sector is the mutual sector. And the fastest growing part of the mutual sector is the ICMIF members.

Liz Green:

Absolutely.

Shaun Tarbuck:

And that's been a consistent to the last 15 years.

Liz Green:

It certainly has.

Shaun Tarbuck:

I think the element of trust is underlying all of that. And we see in all these trust charts, insurance is still below banking, and yet banking caused a lot of the financial crisis. Why are we still below? And I think there's an element of the moment of truth that the claims point is not always that well-handled, but it is by our particular sector. But then not everyone has a claim, and hopefully they don't. But then when they do, we step up as being exceptional. I think pulling some of those reasons out and that purpose and that value bit is going to be so important.

But I think on the other side you mentioned was the regulatory piece, which I remember, I think during 2012 to 2014 regulation was a real problem. And that was all around solvency too. That was around after the financial crisis. Regulation comes in. Well, it quite rightly really nails down the insurance sector to what it's done wrong in a crisis. So we had probably an overburden of regulation at that particular time. Now, we've got probably not driven by any mis-selling or anything else this time, but we've got something new. We've got a climate crisis. We've got the sustainability side.

So the regulators are trying to stay one step ahead of where they normally are, and they're quite right to, and they're putting a lot of regulation out in every country. I mean, Europe probably is getting most of it, but we're starting to see it in all other regions as well. Now, there's copycats. So there's a lot of what we might call guidelines or taxonomies. Those guidelines and taxonomies are exactly that, but it's the starting point for regulators to then ramp up the real impact that you're having.

Now, I'd like to think our partnerships, well, I know our partnerships are working on the impact already. So the SDG calculator that we've developed with Swiss Re and the unit PSI measures the impact of the broad spectrum of sustainable development goals, which is everything. Climate is only one of those. Resilient cities in there. Diversity inclusion is in there. Poverty is in there. Water, farming. Farming is very important to many of our members. All of those measurements you can do. And I read one of our Argentinian members, which is very important, Río Uruguay Seguros, RUS in Argentina. A small company. They've just put their first sustainability report out and they're measuring 13 of the SDGs. Fantastic. But they're also measuring the GRI, the Global Reporting Index. And I think that's another new thing that I've acquired last year as a board seat, is being on the board of the GRI, which is transforming its reporting requirements for just insurance.

It’s financial services being done as a whole, but the insurance sector and myself, I'm on there with the great and the good of whoever's been invited. But that gives us an opportunity to then show the reporting that's going to come out because GRI is the most widely used sustainable reporting vehicle in the world. What's going to transpose into the International Sustainability Standards Board, the ISSB, which was announced two years ago and it's coming out and doing some good work now is going to be a standard for the world. But that will take a bit longer because that's accountancy driven. The GRI is industry driven.

So we are going to come up with something and then that'll be harmonised nicely into the ISSB, which will also be harmonised into the European version of the CSRD. So we had a conference in November on sustainability in London and we got Jessica Fries as our keynote speaker there, and she talked about the harmonisation of all of these regulations being a priority.

So it's going to go in a dip to start with as we all get used to it, but then hopefully the harmonisation will start to come through. And the reason why it's important that she said it, is she's the chair of the GRI this year, and she's also on the ISSB board as well as being the Chair of the Accounting for Sustainability. So there is a willingness of the partnerships that we've got and the friends we know to actually drive that harmonisation. So that's going to be quite key because we know it's on the CEO's mind.

Liz Green:

Yes, it’s wonderful, Shaun, that we’ve been able through yourself to be invited onto these boards because this isn’t something that you just get automatically. This has been a bit of a labour of love, particularly for you I think, certainly over the last 10 years, in terms of the credibility that ICMIF has been able to gain to get these invitations and to continue to get these invitations. And I have to say that I'm delighted that when you retire at the end of this year, you won't be disappearing and that you will be staying on with us for a good couple of years to continue this excellent work and represent our members on these crucial boards. Have you any thoughts about that? And also I think some of our members have said in the past, haven't they? Some of these boards are actually for the whole insurance sector. But why is that so important, Shaun? Does that go back to this sort of overall trust element and us trying to shape the insurance industry?

Shaun Tarbuck:

If I go back, well, certainly until recently, all of these regulations, these policy think tanks, everything else that was going on in our sector, in the broader financial services sector never included the smaller players. And let's be realistic as a mutual, even our big ones are classed as small. They're not multinational. So the invitations would go out to join committees that never were inclusive, shall we say. The diversity on these were all stock companies and all multinationals, which I get. You've got to have that there. But there should always be a box that gets ticked that says we are representing the mutual sector, but it never was and now it is.

In fact, in many cases, we are often the only insurer on some of these committees, around the investment advisory board of the UNDRR for instance. Rob [Wesseling] and I both sit on that. We'll talk about that at another stage, but that's hopefully going to have a big impact. But I think just getting on those board seats where policy is made really shows that we can make a difference and we are that trusted element. So I think just being out there and getting a wide range of people talking to a lot of people, most people who don't know the mutual sector, when you talk about what we do in our communities, in our society and the value of the insurance actually brings to a society and to a country, they get it.

And particularly the UN, they really like working with the mutual sector. So that's why we've got a lot of these positive commitments going and it seems to be a natural fit for us. So I think that's why a lot of doors have opened and we've gone on three or four boards just last year. And we'll get to know those. We'll try and change them so that the impact is great. And hopefully coming back to the end of the year in Buenos Aires, we'll be able to showcase what has happened in those things.

Last point, a new initiative is there is a GRI task force that's going to help me sitting on the GRI board for insurance when we launch that. It's got to be launched this month so they can feed back into me what their experiences are on GRI at the moment and how they want to change it for the rest of this year because by October we have to come up with a final document.

Liz Green:

Oh, that's exciting. So anybody who has a headache around GRI, who's in our membership, then they can get involved in that working group and support you in getting the messaging out to such a prestigious organisation. And I'm very, very proud of that work that you're doing there, Shaun, and I know a lot of our members are as well. But as you commented before, we talked earlier, didn't we, about mutual and cooperative insurers are doing great things.

We know that. We're living and breathing it. I've got a really busy schedule this year going out all over the world, talking at different events and hearing and learning about what the great things our mutual members are doing, but it's not always well communicated. And I think that's been a problem for us. And interestingly, I think about seven or eight years ago, we did a reputation scan.

Shaun Tarbuck:

We did, yes.

Liz Green:

And we found out about the resonance of the cooperative and mutual message globally and how it differs all over the world. One of the key outcomes of that report was cooperative and mutual insurers really need to learn to speak proudly, stand tall about the great things that you're doing. So much so as we created a communication leaders forum at the time... Now for one reason or another that fell by the wayside. We had COVID and what have you. Anyway, the great news is that another thing that we'll be launching this year, and certainly you'll be hearing about it this quarter from the membership point of view, is a rebooted communication forum where we're going to talk about how we can not only talk about what our individual messages are from a membership point of view, but also what the great things we're doing collectively.

Let's get that message out there. And one of the things that we're very keen to talk to this group about is the great work that the foundation is doing. Shaun, you've been involved in our foundation for years, but it's really pivoted recently.

Shaun Tarbuck:

It definitely has and we started it with the 5-5-5 [Strategy], which I was luckily able to announce at COP 21. So there’s so many numbers coming around. So I announced it there on a big stage. The 5-5-5 was five countries, five members with 5 million policy holders getting access to resilience insurance in five years. The five years finished in 2021. How did we do? Well, we got about 15 - 16 million. So instead of the 25 which we were targeting, we got 16 million. But that came from largely from two members.

Liz Green:

Are they lives covered?

Shaun Tarbuck:

The lives covered, yes. The lives covered that insurance for resilience in the emerging market.

Liz Green:

That's amazing.

Shaun Tarbuck:

And that was in only in two projects because COVID, we didn't get others started. So that's built on there. And then the UNDP project that we've got going around insurance and innovation, which we'll be launching first quarter this year. The winners of that particular award, which will get a lot of input, technical assistance, as well as financial assistance jointly from ICMIF and from the UNDP. They will be developing their projects to scale up in the areas in which they're working. So we're very excited about that launch. There's four winners and we'll be able to showcase those again in Buenos Aires.

We hope that's the start of members working together from emerging and developed markets because a two-way process of learning on that, which is great. For instance, in the Philippines CARD MBA, they pay most of their claims in four hours. So we don't do that in the western world. In fact, it might be four months. So how do we learn from that? So there's lots of things we can learn from both sides.

I do think, as you said, the foundation has pivoted. UNDP being on board with this is very important. We saw that in Rome when it was signed and announced, and I think we can really build on this because we can take the mutual model to communities around the world. It's got to be great. And that's how a lot of our mutual started. They'd been in the 1900s because they were being underserved or they weren't being served at all. So you see a lot of our members started in 1905 or around that term to serve the underserved. And that's happening now in the developing nations, and we need to be part of that process.

Liz Green:

Oh, it's so inspiring. Honestly, that story and that part of the work that we do certainly gets me out of bed in the morning. It makes me realise that we make a tangible difference, and we can only do that together. Now, the difference now, certainly for this year, is that we're not looking for money. We're looking for involvement from our members. This is a service that we're offering to our members to learn from our emerging markets, get involved in the projects. You're not going to be harassed for money because great, if you want to contribute and hope you will along the way. But firstly, just come in, learn these innovations that the emerging markets are using and learn to make a difference, be part of something bigger.

Just coming back to where our conversation started at the beginning, Shaun, this is about trust. And the trust element in financial services also goes back to the employees, the people who deliver everything for you and employees coming in, the youngsters that are coming in now expect their mutual to have a higher purpose and to have a connection with the communities. There is no better way to leverage global understanding, what's going on in the emerging market in your local community than having exposure to some of these projects.

I'm so excited about that. And actually, quite a lot of members now are coming through seeing that point and realising that they can bring those learnings up. It's not about fixing an emerging nation particularly, it's about learning the innovation from that nation, bringing it in and helping to build that trust with your employees to make sense of the whole piece.

Shaun Tarbuck:

Yes. Well, we've covered an awful lot in our first session, probably over a little bit on time, but I hope everyone that's listening on this has found this a little bit valuable. We're going to do these quarterly and we'll talk more about the issues and the challenges that we are hearing from you, and also what the industry is doing and what ICMIF is doing to fill that gap and represent you as our members. So thank you very much for listening, and we'll see you next time.

Liz Green:

Yes, thank you very much. And if you've got any ideas about particular topics you'd like us to cover in the next quarter, do let us know. Thank you.

 

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